just dont think i am going to make it as a pagan

god i quess i am not accepted by the witches meet up message board because i claim to be a christian

Candle,
You claim to be what ever lie you are, at what ever board that you are on, at whatever time you are on. I may be many things, but I am true to my course, and honest with people, even though I may not like all people, because not all people are likable. I am despised here because I do not cow tau to being considered a lowly mortal that needs to follow a religion to feel good about myself. I don't need to become another sheep in a flock. Sheep are the stupidest of animals besides lemmings and the extinct do do bird. Religions are set up to subjugate, and subvert for the sake of controlling the masses, and also make material gains. Write a book and create lets say the religion of Alcoholic Muslim Wicca or Christian Satanism Wicca. I would believe that some moron would follow, because they do not have the personal self worth to do anything else, because they were trained to follow something. Also when you follow something or some one, then you don't have to take responsibility for your actions because you were only following orders. If what you were following screws up your life, then you can cast your blame on it or them instead of yourself, which is one of the greatest cop outs of all cowards.
Hail and fare well.

Dear Silver Witch,
From what I gather you are saying, than you might as well not call yourself a witch or Pagan of any kind. You just may as well classify yourself as an atheist.

Blessed be and try to have a good day.

I do not deny the existence of Goddess or God as an atheist does for this would be absurd. The legends of what the Goddess's, and God's were and are grounds for people to be like them, or to learn of their qualities. I believe in my Goddess's, and Gods this way, and I have faith in myself to learn these ways, so your supposition is incorrect. Even the Christian's Jesus knew to have faith in himself for the patron God he believed in, and to become like that God. He didn't follow any religion he lived by words. His patron God was Jehovah, my patroness is Lillith the first mortal made a god as the accounts go.

I suggest you reread what I had written before about religion because religion is not faith nor is it belief; religion is a state of life bound by monastic vows as it pertains to, or is characteristic of a secluded, dedicated, or austere manner of living generally to a church, and not necessarily to any Gods or Godesses as in the reference to the Pope and Catholic church were all of the Christian cults grew from.

Did you know that the Protestants circa 1529-34, removed many books from the bible and doesn't that book say something about adding or subtracting from it, so I wonder what has been added or changed since the inception of Protestant Christianity. By the way Protestant means (originally) any of the German princes who protested against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in 1529, which had denounced the Reformation of the Church.

I know this about your religion and you can learn it too but you know nothing about me nor my life or beliefs, so I suggest you keep your suppositions and comments to yourself until you know me. This you can do by reading and learning to comprehend on your own.

I do not deny the existence of Goddess or God as an atheist does for this would be absurd. The legends of what the Goddess's, and God's were and are grounds for people to be like them, or to learn of their qualities. I believe in my Goddess's, and Gods this way, and I have faith in myself to learn these ways, so your supposition is incorrect. Even the Christian's Jesus knew to have faith in himself for the patron God he believed in, and to become like that God. He didn't follow any religion he lived by words. His patron God was Jehovah, my patroness is Lillith the first mortal made a god as the accounts go.

I suggest you reread what I had written before about religion because religion is not faith nor is it belief; religion is a state of life bound by monastic vows as it pertains to, or is characteristic of a secluded, dedicated, or austere manner of living generally to a church, and not necessarily to any Gods or Godesses as in the reference to the Pope and Catholic church were all of the Christian cults grew from.

Did you know that the Protestants circa 1529-34, removed many books from the bible and doesn't that book say something about adding or subtracting from it, so I wonder what has been added or changed since the inception of Protestant Christianity. By the way Protestant means (originally) any of the German princes who protested against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in 1529, which had denounced the Reformation of the Church.

I know this about your religion and you can learn it too but you know nothing about me nor my life or beliefs, so I suggest you keep your suppositions and comments to yourself until you know me. This you can do by reading and learning to comprehend on your own.

Well my dear, now you know how it feels! You don't know me either and I assume you have no intention of doing that ,so vice versa! GET TO KNOW US FIRST AS A GROUP BEFORE YOU COME HERE AND MAKE YOUR OWN FOOLISH JUDGEMENTS! EITHER THAT OR GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!

"GET TO KNOW US FIRST AS A GROUP BEFORE YOU COME HERE AND MAKE YOUR OWN FOOLISH JUDGEMENTS! EITHER THAT OR GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!"
This is shouting and tantamount to a temper tantrum as there is no need for this if you claim to be what you are, an "all forgiving majikal user" or am I right in my judgments? I am not here to fight you, I am an elder here teaching freely knowledges I can see you know not of, and it is when you show anger, and hatred I know that you are immature in your knowledges.

I have been giving you people a history lesson with factual back round to help to educate you, I don't do this to push my ego upon you, I do this from a loving stand point of letting you know the facts so that you are consistent in being either a Pagan or Christian. All you can do on the other hand is Caps lock shout at me, I find this far more folly than asking questions of my judgments in a peaceable manner; but then again isn't it this kind of Christian fanaticism or zealously that gets you people in trouble anyways.

I have found over the years that zealots know very little about their beliefs, and more about their ego's, lusts, sloth, and hates as in what is happening in the middle east. Islam is not about war, and neither is Christianity, but their is a conflict of ego's going on here because neither side is willing to talk rationally, and neither are you. I on the other hand am willing to talk and answer questions to the best of my abilities at any time.
PEACE and LOVE is not about WAR.

This is a quote from another witch on these boards that I thought you might like to take a look at.

"Yes, when we follow blindly we lose sight of what we follow.

I see this in Christianity a lot, and in Neo-paganism a lot. I think that's mainly because I move or have moved in these circles more than any other. I even spent time with atheists, and it was there, too. It was a complete inability to understand the other side of an argument. With the atheists it was probably the worst only because they claim to subscribe to reason, yet failed to accept reason if it was not secular. I think it's a very human condition. It almost seems like a self-protection mechanism. We don't want to see the truth, we want to see what makes sense to us. For me, I believe I've been attracted to a lifeview that takes illusion away. I could be wrong, but the fact that I'm willing to accept that possibility, the idea that I don't know, makes me think that I'm not completely wrong in my belief.

XXXXXXXX, you remember your thoughts on abortion? You said that abortion will never be resolved because both sides place importance on different aspects of the problem. For pro-choicers, the woman is the most important part of the debate, for the pro-lifer it is the child. Any argument, once processed through that importance filter, changes in meaning. I think we do this with everything. I do it with many things. I'm going through a process where I'm being led to re-examine my views on these things.

Christianity is one of them. I used to have so many different problems with it. But now I have almost none to speak of. Once I understood the fundamental filter that all christian logic flowed from (that filter is that Jehovah is the only god and humanity is cursed to have a sinful nature) the rest of Christianity makes perfect sense. All beliefs in demons vs. aliens, premarital sex, gays, abortion, etc. All those views that some non-christians think to be so silly, become very serious once a person believes that central filter to be true. I can see the logic, but I do not believe in that central tenet, so I cannot accept Christianity within my own life."

For atheists, their filter is that only physical evidence can be considered as real. Anything that is abstract, or non-physical, cannot be said to be real, it can only be perspective. Any view where perspective is seen to be real must be delusional. Atheists have logical tests and science to rely on for their reality. They cannot conceive of anything outside of those things being anything other than a fantasy. I can understand that. But once one experiences the presence of deity, one knows that atheism is a private delusion, almost a self-limiting of possibility. I have felt the presence of my goddess. Before that, I could think that gods were archetypes, or made up stories. I have wondered several times since whether it was all in my head, but I can't believe it because, having felt the presence of that vast "otherness", I know I am incapable of feeling that on my own. I see the gods working now, in my life and in others and I can't see it any other way anymore. That is one of my filters, if you will, I can no longer be an atheist, and I have no way to prove the "why" of my beliefs to an atheist.

Neo-pagans of all stripes operate under their own different filters. Some ridiculous, and others too serious. The problem I see in neo-paganism is a lack of understanding of what a witch is, what Wicca is, even what a neo-pagan is. There is no central definition of terms, or rules. Some are self-defined, some are defined for us. Some of us seem to rebel against anything we have no control over. Neo-pagans are bound to each other through community, from being part of similar, often individualistic, minority religions, but not similar enough to agree on many things. This is why a lot of "christian-bashing" goes on. Many neo-pagans are ex-christians, having left the religion for a variety of reasons. This is a commonality that many can relate to each other through. I don't think it should be a main belief, but it is becoming fundamental to the pagan community.

Again my interest is in the balance, in the fundamental structure of what is real and true. I judge my thoughts by that which I believe to be true, but refuse to accept even that as unassailable. I try not to accept anything until it has been tested against what has already been tested, constantly re-assessing everything. Trying to never go too far lost in darkness, nor become too blinded by light. Yes, I make my choices on what is right and wrong, but I try to accept where my mind leads, even if it shakes everything that has come before. I can't recommend it, but only because it gets hard sometimes. Sometimes I just want to relax and let myself be caught up. Seeing what is there can be a burden, and then hearing those filters in other people can just make it harder. Sometimes I want to scream. There is joy in the knowledge, but frustration in seeing others who don't see it. Knowing the destruction that most people will do, guided by those filters, opposed by others with different filters. Just wishing there was some way to make them see each other. There are these passions and emotions that seem too big to contain. And then there is this sense of something so much larger. So infinite I could never contain it. It seems like I'm on the edges of it, but I can't see more then a tiny fraction of it. It's so frustrating feeling it and not being able to reach it. Writing about it gets overwhelming for me, so I think I'll stop now."
By user 3040008 Middlesex, NJ 237th Post.

So please people when you talk with me, talk with me and use some manners. XXXXXXXX refers to Brisbane, AU 341st Post on the witches message board.

That's deep!!!!!!