Are you people crazy?

Gardner purported to have been initiated in 1939 into a tradition of witchcraft that he believed to be a continuation of European Paganism. Doreen Valiente, one of Gardner's priestesses, later identified as the woman who initiated Garder. Her name was Dorothy Clutterbuck in a book published by Janet and Stewart Farrar. These criticisms were based on references Valiente remembered Gardner making about a woman he called "Old Dorothy". The scholar Ronald Hutton instead debates this in his "Triumph of the Moon" that Gardner's witchcraft tradition was largely the inspiration of members of the Rosicrucian Order Crotona Fellowship. Especially a woman known by the "magical name" of Dafo. Dr Leo Ruickbie in his "Witchcraft Out of the Shadows" analyzed the motion picture evidence and concluded that Aleister Crowley played a crucial role in inspiring Gerald to establish a new pagan religion. Ruickbie, Hutton, and others, further debated that much of what has been published of Gardnerian Wicca. Gardner's practice came to be known by, and was written by Doreen Valiente, Aleister Crowley and also contains borrowings from other identifiable sources. Doreen had a bias against Crowley, and proceeded to convince Gardner to remove as much Thelemic material as she could find from the "Book of Shadows." Doreen is on record as having stated "this Thelemic material was not really suitable for the Old Craft," however beautiful the words might be, or how much one might agree with what they said... "The Witches Bible", by Janet and Stewart Farrar, p.42, footnote 8). So arose "Text C" of the Book of Shadows (1), which serves as the primary basis of modern Wicca. However, it does appear that old Gerald put his foot down at some point.

The best method of inspection of this subject would be to relate the history and origins of Wicca, and to highlight the most obvious Thelemic links to this young Faith. The story begins in the 1920s with a woman named Margaret Alice Murray. A well-known anthropologist, Margaret constructed a theorem about the Inquisition reports of the Church. Margret felt that there must be some truths buried within the lies, and given the more properly or justly, and with better reason the consistent nature of most of the confessions obtained from the accused. The idea of making pacts with spiritual entities, invocations and evocations of a Horned God, wild Sabbats held around bonfires on the equinoxes and solstices, and more. These are not only all pervading in the confessions of the accused "witches", but are similar to many practices of the ancient pagans themselves. Murray's conclusion was that the church was indeed finding practitioners of an organized religion that spread all throughout Europe. This extended into history beyond the founding of the Catholic Church. This Margaret called the "Old Religion or the craft of the cunning", and she published her ideas in "The Witch-Cult in Western Europe" as well as "The God of the Witches". The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, appears on the Internet at http://www.sacred-tex... . The God of the Witches appears on the Internet at http://altreligion.ab... MARGARET ALICE MURRAY, D.Lit. (Fellow of University College, London).

I suggest that you do more reading on the subject of witchcraft because christian witch is a contradiction in terms and it pisses of real witches! You christians, why don't you go and try to infiltrate the Krishna's or some other thing instead.

Hi well informed One,

Greetings and hail.

Is it not true that crowley was initiated into the oto sect in london and that sect was a lodge of the Masons, as the initiation rites of wicca follows ever so closely to the initiation rites of the Masons.

Especially the first 2. Wicca also use the inverted pentagram, where as the true position in upright.

As the pentagram represents a human standing up with their arms outstretched and head facing the sky,
Why would anybody wish that Humans be turned on their head!
History records that Gardener and Crowley along with others, worked together.

if this be the case then Wicca's roots may lay in a combination of the Egyptian school, and the Greek schools of thought.

Surely true Paganism stems from before those era's, circa 3000BC.

A

Greetings and hail.

''Is it not true that crowley was initiated into the oto sect in london and that sect was a lodge of the Masons, as the initiation rites of wicca follows ever so closely to the initiation rites of the Masons.''

Crowley was the founder of the OTO Thelemic order but he too took some of his teachings from the Mason lodge that he was apart of before the OTO of the Hermetic's Egyptian magi's, Kabala, Gregory Mathers ect. This web page may help others to do more studies into the magical likes of thought. http://etext.virginia... . As for the others I am sure with the lack of comprehension skills you have there is always llewellyn publications and all of their misinformational books for those who like to spend money needlessly and foolishly.

Greeting and Hail

Thanks The first link was a list of books, but the 2nd link led me to here.

http://altreligion.ab...


Did you know that the masons came to the UK in 1604 from France. And in fact they were catholic priests that had been tried and thrown out of the country for murderous and other acts against minors and women.



The only reason the pyramids were opened was because of the masons, they got everything from Egypt,
The roots of the masonic fellowship and Wicca are the same.
The only way for businessmen to go to a foreign country and basically steal stuff, is that they and had the authority of the regent.


True paganism started in the iron age, carried on thru the bronze age, and it was only after christianity came to the uk pre-945ad via the Greek bishop Augustine, when he was sent to Gaul (uk) as punishment, and most likely started or caused the start of the cult of the red dragon , in the UK.


How could gardener start a new faith/belief system, when it already existed!
Answer: he didn't, he borrowed from his 1st love (masons/ greek theology), and mixed a few other thing in to the melting pot, thus wicca was born, but it is not a true faith, it was invented.

And now i'm pretty certain that most of the leaders of wicca are men, and thats where the problem lies, Wicca leaders MUST BE WOMEN!

of course i know that there are covens that are strictly women only, and these cults stick closer to the original horned god sect than any others.

The problem with christians today is that they look to the bible for historical fact. The books should all be burnt.

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I'v lifted some text from that link: credits :Margaret Alice Murray

Fact in 1282 the priest of Inverkeithing led the fertility dance round the churchyard; in 1303 the bishop of Coventry, like other members of his diocese, paid homage to a deity in the form of an animal; in 1453, two years before the Rehabilitation of Joan of Arc, the Prior of Saint-Germain-en-Laye performed the same rites as the bishop of Coventry. As late as 1613 de Lancre can say of the Basses Pyrénées, "the greater part of the priests are witches", while Madame Bourignon in 1661 records at Lille that "no Assemblies were ever seen so numerous in the City as in these Sabbaths, where came People of all Qualities and Conditions, Young and Old, Rich and Poor, Noble, and Ignoble, but especially all sorts of Monks and Nuns, Priests and Prelates". The political aspect of the organisation is well exemplified in the trial of the North Berwick witches, when at the instance of their Grandmaster they attempted to kill James VI.

The records of the Middle Ages show the ancient god was known in many parts of the country, but to the Christian recorder he was the enemy of the New Religion and was therefore equated with the Principle of Evil, in other words the Devil.

It is possible that the Church's prohibition against representing the Crucifixion as a lamb on a cross was due to the desire to differentiate the Christian from the heathen god. The lamb, being a horned animal, was liable to be confounded with the horned deity of the Pagans.

Throughout the Bronze and Iron ages horned deities are to be found in Egypt.

It is worth noting that, with the exception of the god Mentu, the horns of cattle are worn by goddesses only, while the gods have the horns of sheep. The chief of the horned gods of Egypt was Amon, originally the local deity of Thebes, later, the supreme god of the whole country. He is usually represented in human form wearing the curved horns of the Theban ram.

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My point is : That wicca root and theology closely follow that of the fellowship, whose roots are christian-greek/egyptian.

this information is not solely directed at you, Wicca, and other forms, are the old ways, and must be bound together, the only way for that to happen is more openess.

it is my job to
a.) unearth the facts and with them, hack at the foundations of invented religeons!
b.) And bring the correct messages and guidance to the people.

It is my belief that there is no god, only nature, and somehow the communications to the true force of this planet is being hindered by invented faiths, christianity- islam- wicca- masons, who are only interested in controlling the minds of the people, they have no interest in anything else remotely attributed to faith, or healing.

Even the cult of the horned god, is not what i beleive to be attributed to the goddess cult. when the great flood of the world approx 5000bc obliterated a lot of traces of anything and everything, carved statuettes of goddess's were still being found.

Merry part.'

A

Hail and Greetings,

It is my belief that there is no god, only nature, and somehow the communications to the true force of this planet is being hindered by invented faiths, christianity- islam- wicca- masons, who are only interested in controlling the minds of the people, they have no interest in anything else remotely attributed to faith, or healing.

It is my belief that we are all gods, some newly born, some young children and adults, some middle aged and some very old souls, but gods non the less. I was brought up to think on this level which opens up the realities of conducting pure magic through the cunning kraft. Also I was taught to teach others these things providing they were capable of taking responsibility for everything that they think, know, say and do.

PS you forgot the ILLUMINATI.

Hail and fare well.

Mmm the Illuminati, yes, i heard somewhere that they were once the Lunar society, probably just a rumour like so many, these days.

Gods amongst us!

I too have looked from that view, but still no transmutable change in solid matter. One may affect the weather, but can one affect the earth. most people are affected by the moon, and thus other planets in our system, gravitationally speaking, or is it somethiing elase affecting them.

I'm always open to learning!

A
Blessed Be

The Illuminati is the name used for several groups, real and or fictitious. Most commonly it is referred specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati. The Illuminati, Lunars or illuminated ones, are believed to be the masterminds behind the events that will lead to a New World Order. Commonly it refers specifically to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment secret society. They are also referred to as a shadowy conspiratorial organization which is reputed to secretly control world affairs. The Illuminati's history goes back long before the Freemasons and some of the operation of the Freemasons are based on the Illuminati's back round.
93's SMIB...



PS. "is it somethiing else affecting them." yes it is. Charisma as defined by the online dictionary:
1. Theology. a divinely conferred gift or power.
2. a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
3. the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.

Most people in culture are followers, as they would rather leave the leading to somebody that they can blame later if things go wrong. This is a sheepish attitude, hey aren't christians sheep in a flock? Anyways if the charismatic person maniputales well enough, people will do as they are trained to and execute the order given to them like any good mindless automaton.

You are so fine like your name confers Silver

What can be done to hinder the wrong doers ie: Masons or illuminati.

Arcangel

They could be a benefit to humanity providing they do not let it all go to their heads. We all know that ultimate power (control) ruins or corrupts ultimately. I believe that the thinking persons in these Orders also have a heart that will temper their lusts of power into the wisdom for the greater good. These Orders wouldn't have lasted as long as they have without having wisdom.

I do so wish we could have these discussions on the witches board like you are having here without all the nut jobs adding in their 2 cents....